Author Topic: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends  (Read 5144 times)

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spider

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Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« on: February 27, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »
Safety Bulletin - Please read

Something that can get over-looked if you are, for one example, buying NEW Disc Brakes from the UK (with the good value exchange rate, many are) and even replacing parts on the front end, it is definitely worth check this out. The very Late Australian built Mokes had the UK MKII type steering arms but were also fitted with a UK MKII type steering rack. It would be highly likely by now that the steering rack has been replaced, possibly with an Australian one (The UK Racks don't last too well).

Many of the New Disc Assemblies will come complete with Steering Arms.



Shown here is the MKII type in the top and the MKI type lower.

These must be fited with a matching Steering Rack ie MKI Racks go with MKI Steering Arms.

The ones supplied with the New Disc Brakes will be the UK MKII Types. The Australian Made Cam Gears Steering Racks, which most of our Mokes will have, are as far as sizing goes, the same as the MKI type.

The Arms have slightly different lengths but more importantly, different Angles



The MKI one is on top with the UK MKII one below.

So, this will mean that you'll need to adjust your wheel alignment. Problem is, the Tie Rod End will only be engaged by (usually) as little as 4 threads, and this is worse if your Moke sits lower than standard or if you have adjustable lower suspension arms with negative camber dialed in.

There are several fixes for this.

The easiest is to fit Triumph Spitfire Tie Rod Ends. These are the same as our Moke ones only a little longer and the Nut these days takes a 17 mm Spanner



The one of the Left is the Triumph one and Right is the standard Moke one.

Another fix is to change out the Rod End of the Steering Rack with Morris 1100 ones. These where a little longer than Moke ones, but otherwise the same.



The upper one is the standard Moke one and the lower one a Morris 1100 type.




« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 10:37:09 PM by spider »
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sa mokin

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 06:06:21 PM »
Man you are the wizard Spider - is the Triumph mod one I should consider with the Cape York Mobile?


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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 06:15:52 PM »
Nice work again Spider and just at the right time for me ;)
Is there any stamping or moulded numbers to help us tell which one is which if we don't have anything to compare against?
HP
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spider

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 06:26:37 PM »
Hahaha, it was you guys I was thinking of this morning when I remembered this!

Man you are the wizard Spider - is the Triumph mod one I should consider with the Cape York Mobile?

Good point!

Even if you have all MKI parts, there is no reason why the Triumph ones can't be used.

So in short, yes.

Nice work again Spider and just at the right time for me ;)
Is there any stamping or moulded numbers to help us tell which one is which if we don't have anything to compare against?
HP

HP, if you were to draw a line through the two mounting holes up to the hole for the Tie Rod the MKI types will be off-set by 38.8 mm, the MKII types are off-set by 33.0 mm.
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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 07:53:39 AM »
Why not simply swap the old steering arms onto the new hubs/uprights?  They simply bolt on and it avoids any future confusion about what non-standard bits were used.
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spider

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 05:20:08 PM »
Why not simply swap the old steering arms onto the new hubs/uprights?  They simply bolt on and it avoids any future confusion about what non-standard bits were used.

Yeap, that would be the best way to go - if the originals are not bent and the dowel holes flogged out.

As I mentioned above, some of the new assemblies come with steering arms, which likely as not will be the wrong ones for your Moke. So many peoples who but the new bolt in brakes, do just that, complete with the wrong arms. Best to check.
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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 05:55:53 PM »
Quote
So many peoples who but the new bolt in brakes, do just that, complete with the wrong arms. Best to check.

Another important thing to check is the wheel studs. All the kits I have bought included the standard mini stud (21A2064), which is okay for some wheels - but too long for Sunraysia wheels and nuts.

Can't say any of mine included the arms, but plenty of second hand ones probably would.


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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 09:46:52 PM »
Why not simply swap the old steering arms onto the new hubs/uprights?  They simply bolt on and it avoids any future confusion about what non-standard bits were used.

I've never actually seen a kit with the arms included (just had another look and no-one seems to do this) and have always used the existing arms on the car.
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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 11:08:05 PM »
I bought compleate disc brake assemblies and new stearing rack from the UK...   Should these be Ok as is
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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 05:44:41 AM »
I bought compleate disc brake assemblies and new stearing rack from the UK...   Should these be Ok as is

Hi bennybear,

In short, yes, however (sorry I have no soft way of breaking this to you) the UK Steering Racks are not much good. They have smaller internals and in particular, ones that have been offered from the UK in the past few years have a very short life. I haven't actually pulled one of the down as yet, but I am suspecting that they are assembled with grease instead of oil. I'd suggest peeling back one of the boots and seeing what's in it. If it's grease, I'd be putting about 200 ml of SAE90 Gear Oil in there.
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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 08:18:16 AM »
Hi bennybear,

In short, yes, however (sorry I have no soft way of breaking this to you) the UK Steering Racks are not much good. They have smaller internals and in particular, ones that have been offered from the UK in the past few years have a very short life. I haven't actually pulled one of the down as yet, but I am suspecting that they are assembled with grease instead of oil. I'd suggest peeling back one of the boots and seeing what's in it. If it's grease, I'd be putting about 200 ml of SAE90 Gear Oil in there.

The racks I was seeing fail from theUK a few years ago, and there are still some out there in working service, were oil filled. The one I have here that is/was brand new and never made it into a Moke leaked the oil out on the shelf over a period of a few years. The failures in them seem to be the pinion bearing breaking up.

Terry

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 07:50:58 PM »
Can we really generalise so far as to say that all steering racks out of the UK are no good?

Are there any particular manufacturers or countries of origin (of manufacture) to watch out for?


Newie

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2012, 08:13:28 PM »
Terry, that's rather interesting regarding that you've found the bearings have failed. All the early UK Racks (up to at least 82) used the same bearings as the Australian Racks. I've not found another bearing type that was used in any UK Rack, even after 82, but I don't have a decent detailed list after 82.

Edit - it make me wonder if they did something odd that cause the bearing to be over-loaded, eg, a high helix angle on the gears or too much mis-alignment????

Newie, I can say that the Australian Made Racks are very good. All that really goes wrong with them is the felt bush, in the left hand end, flattens out and then you end up with some play on that side. There are also bevel springs inside that sometimes crack, but even when that happens you can hardly tell, even when jacked up checking for play and other problems, they usually only revel themselves when stripping down. Of course, if the boots split and the oil runs out, you can expect any rack, including these, to give serious trouble. The Australian Racks it would seem where the best ever made as now some of the UK guys are importing them. These racks are actually a shortened Morris 1100 Rack, which is a bigger and heavier car.

The earlier UK racks did seem better than the later ones, about the time that they changed to the style that used different boots on each end, they went from not too great, to worse.

I have no idea if the South African's ever made their own racks, I've not heard of any. I don't know of any other countries that made their own, could well be.

One thing to keep in mind with all racks is that they are designed for Mini's, which run 10 inch wheel (or 12's - either way a rolling diameter of around 440 mm) and if you have a big wheel moke, the bigger and heavier wheels are so much harder on steering components as well as ball joints and wheel bearings.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 08:49:57 PM by spider »
Old Moker's never die - they just smell that way

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2012, 08:28:27 PM »
Thanks for the extra detail Spider,

These racks are actually a shortened Morris 1100 Rack, which is a bigger and heavier car.

That reminds me................... I have a few Morris 1100 parts which came with one of my Moke wrecks, including a steering rack. In a recent shed cleanup I was wondering if the steering rack is any use or if I should ebay it/scrap it.

Bearing in mind I know very little about steering racks (OK, you got me - I know nothing about them except that they make the car steer  :) ) is it feasible/possible to modify it to suit a Moke? Only asking as it seems it's hard to buy good new ones.



Newie

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Re: Steering Racks, Steering Arms and Tie Rod Ends
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2012, 08:46:50 PM »
Thanks for the extra detail Spider,

That reminds me................... I have a few Morris 1100 parts which came with one of my Moke wrecks, including a steering rack. In a recent shed cleanup I was wondering if the steering rack is any use or if I should ebay it/scrap it.

Bearing in mind I know very little about steering racks (OK, you got me - I know nothing about them except that they make the car steer  :) ) is it feasible/possible to modify it to suit a Moke? Only asking as it seems it's hard to buy good new ones.



Newie

Newie, I'd suggest you hang on to it. It is not feasible to make it fit a Moke, however, 90% of the internal parts will fit any Australian Mini or Moke rack. You may also find the rod ends may come in handy one day as be my opening post.
Old Moker's never die - they just smell that way

It's not whether you win or loose but how you play the game.