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Author Topic: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider  (Read 505 times)

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Samm

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Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« on: March 01, 2018, 09:36:23 PM »
Hi All,

Instead of start multiple threads I thought it might be more advantageous to just start a thread.

For those that aren't familiar with my Moke- I run an 1100. It was rebuilt about 8 years ago and hasn't seen a huge amount of km's. Due to some excessive end float in the crank the crank has been replaced and everything checked over in the last 18 months. In preparation for Perth in 2013 I upgraded my cooling system with a new 4 core radiator, hoses, water pump and I run an additional auxiliary radiator in the form of a heater core (controlled by a heater tap). I also upgraded to a new bigger alternator and had the 1.5" SU rebuilt. I run 3 into 1 extractors with a cut down standard A+ inlet manifold and what I believe to be a 1.75" exhaust with an RC40 muffler.

With this in mind I was fortunate enough to pick up a 1275 recently which I plan to have rebuilt and dropped in later this year. However it came more or less as a short motor. So I am of two minds as to whether I pilfer what I can from my 1100 to get the 1275 sorted or whether I'd be better off/ need to track down 1275 specific parts.

The plan is to obviously take advantage of the extra power the 1275 has to offer but with focus on the fact that I want to maintain driveability for long runs and touring as well.

Parts missing-
Thermostat housing
Distributor
Water pump
Starter motor
Manifold
Carburetor
Alternator
Radiator
Screw on oil filter housing + oil pipe and dipstick
All associated bracketary.

I figure when rebuilding any engine a new water pump, hoses and thermostat are no brainers. I have a Gemini starter that has been modified to fit so that will also go on.

It has been clarified to me that the thermostat housing is different so I will have to source one of those and subsequently either have my radiator top tank changed to suit the new inlet location or shell out for a new one.

I believe the screw on oil filter housing is universal so another thing to either source or pilfer.

Alternator can come across too however is the bracketary universal?

I am yet to investigate further about the carburetor options- SU vs Weber and inlet manifold options nor have I looked into the Distributor options- serviceable unit with new electronic module or whole new unit.

I am also unsure of the current diff ratio in the 1275 or in my 1100 to be honest so opinions on the best ratio to run. Bearing in mind that I run low profile tyres around town but will run 70 series when touring or long distances.

I am hoping my exhaust will work with the 1275 however I was thinking about looking at smaller muffler options to better mount it in the rear subframe.

I was thinking of trying to keep the 1100 as more or less a complete unit for resale to recoup costs or to store properly for a rainy day.

If anyone has done the swap and has any tips/suggestions/insight or opinions on what they think it best to do regarding any of the above I'd love to hear it.

Thanks heaps
Samm
 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 09:50:34 PM by Samm »

Terry

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Re: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 08:59:48 PM »
Quote
However it came more or less as a short motor. So I am of two minds as to whether I pilfer what I can from my 1100 to get the 1275 sorted or whether I'd be better off/ need to track down 1275 specific parts.
I would try and keep the pilfering to a minimum so that you have a complete or almost complete engine for a spare or to sell or for your next Moke.
Quote
nor have I looked into the Distributor options- serviceable unit with new electronic module or whole new unit.
I would  avoid a new unit and just get a usable dizzy and place a $65 electric module in it. If you want to be sure get the distributor checked by a reputable person to make sure the basics are working, for example I have seen two distributors in the past couple of months where they were not advancing past about 20 degrees. You could go the whole hog and get it all set up with the right advice curve for your engine etc. etc. but depending on the budget you can do that later. The step up in power from the 1100 to the 1275 will be enough to keep you happy for a while.
Quote
I am also unsure of the current diff ratio in the 1275 or in my 1100 to be honest so opinions on the best ratio to run. Bearing in mind that I run low profile tyres around town but will run 70 series when touring or long distances.
I would suggest set up the gearbox with a 3.7 crown and pinion and get a spare set of rims with 70 profile tyres and this will be quite usable when you are travelling on the long runs with the old people. And with the lower profile you will end up with a about 3.9 equivalent ratio and that should be zipping around the town.

Quote
I am hoping my exhaust will work with the 1275 however I was thinking about looking at smaller muffler options to better mount it in the rear subframe.
Unless you really do a lot of work on the engine/head then the exhaust is unlikely to be causing any real restrictions. You might get a bit more with a LCB style of engine pipes but again it is something you can do later when you start thinking the 1275 isn't quick enough. :)

Quote
I was thinking of trying to keep the 1100 as more or less a complete unit for resale to recoup costs or to store properly for a rainy day.
Good idea.
Quote
It has been clarified to me that the thermostat housing is different so I will have to source one of those and subsequently either have my radiator top tank changed to suit the new inlet location or shell out for a new one.
Another issue you may have is that your Moke is a 1970 and therefore has a wider metal radiator shroud, where the body number is stamped, and when putting in a different engine/radiator set up you may have clearance issues with this shroud. This can be overcome with a bit of careful work on the angle grinder or some custom work on the radiator mounting shroud and brackets. You may have already dealt with this if you have fitted the 4 core radiator, but just something to know about when swapping engines on the earlier Mokes.

You don't say much about the gearbox, but I would say make sure that both units are running the same output shafts, i.e. Pot joints, and that the gear changes are the same, pudding stirrer vs rod change, so that you can use the same drive shafts and the exhaust path is the same. Makes swapping over a fairly straight forward affair.

Quote
I am yet to investigate further about the carburetor options- SU vs Weber and inlet manifold options
Noise and power vs economy I think. :) But being a 1970 Moke you don't have the firewall depression to accommodate the big donut air cleaner of the HS4 so not being sure what you have there now, but I suspect some pretty little pancake filter, and not directly related to the engine swap but you need to be aware of a possible clearance issue if you start playing with manifolds.

The 1275 has a different LHS engine steady mount so you will need to source one for the engine and probably drill the extra hole in the bracket on the firewall.

Terry
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 09:03:16 PM by Terry »
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Halfpint

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Re: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 09:56:24 PM »
Hi Samm,
That's a good run down Terry.
Something about the exhaust though, a 1275 is about 25mm taller than a 998/1100. Not sure how this may effect any slip joint type you may have from the manifold to the engine pipe.

Distributors are another thing, you need to buy one, either New or Used. I would like to think that a used distributor could be just converted with a module and your good to go. I've done it and had a bloody good run, but that was a while ago and I knew the dizzy was under 50k used. 
A new electronic dizzy would give the peace of mind that the bearings are in good nick, the module is good and adding a new $30 coil means its as good as you can get straight up.
Not sure how much it costs and the time needed to get a used one recoed, mapped and set up, but I guess that's a call you will make after checking your options, but if you look at a new one, I would recommend a reputable brand like the CSI or the 123 ( I'm sure there are others also).

Ive seen some shocker (cough cough) mods to the shroud for the radiator to fit as well, please be careful here Samm, it can be done well, but may involve some help from a panel shop if your not that comfortable tackling it.

HP


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Samm

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Re: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 11:08:47 PM »
Thanks for your reply Terry and Halfpint.

I think I will try and keep my 1100 as a complete unit however I will likely pinch the alternator as its fairly new.

At the moment I have two dizzy's in my box of bits but both are quite alot of build up on the alloy and without knowing the history I'd much rather consider what a new unit will set me back or if anyone has a decent used one laying around I could get that checked over.

Sounds like a plan with the diff ratios Terry- I'll have more of an idea whats in it once its been cracked. Assuming its original does anyone know what it would have had in it from factory (assuming it hadn't been played with)?

The shroud shouldn't be an issue but I haven't any problems trimming it back as needed. I already massaged it when installing the 4 core last time.

I forgot to mention that I run a cut down remote shifter from a mini. I quite like the shifter location and i'm quite happy with the throw of the short shift kit I have in it. I have been considering my options though and thought about going back to a rod or pudding stirrer. The original hole is still in the floor but has been capped. I could just plate the current hole if I decided to change it. I figure there isn't any bracketary under my floor though. Something else to look at I suppose!

On the 1100 I am running a 1.5" SU with a standard round plastic air cleaner with a K&N donut filter with a bit of a 'CAI' hose running from the air cleaner to just behind the grill. Manifold options and costs will be the restricting factor for the carby I think.

What is the difference in the engine steady? Do you have any comparative photos Terry?

Thanks heaps again- alot more to consider than originally thought! Might be saving for a bit longer before it becomes a reality.

Ta
Samm

Terry

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Re: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 07:58:16 PM »
Quote
At the moment I have two dizzy's in my box of bits but both are quite alot of build up on the alloy and without knowing the history I'd much rather consider what a new unit will set me back or if anyone has a decent used one laying around I could get that checked over.
Give the dizzy's you have a clean up and check that the shaft turns freely as long as there doesn't feel like much or any movement in the shaft it should be a decent candidate. I am not a fan of the new 'Rucas' distributors but if the funds permit and you would like to play with it then the 123 or CSI that HP mention do look good.
Quote
Sounds like a plan with the diff ratios Terry- I'll have more of an idea whats in it once its been cracked. Assuming its original does anyone know what it would have had in it from factory (assuming it hadn't been played with)?
If it i from a Morris 1100 then 4.2 or 4.3 and possibly the 4.1 being the 1275 version, I think. It may also have the same housing to take your modified Mini extension so that would be good on the change over plans.So it will be Moke ratios and it was in a Moke at some stage so the output shaft maybe the same as yours.
Quote
What is the difference in the engine steady? Do you have any comparative photos Terry?
If you look at the part pictured you can see it has two holes for the bolt, one is for the 998/1100 and the other is for the 1275. And the related product shows the 998/1100 bracket that goes under the thermostat which because the holes are located different on the 1275 there is a matching bracket for the 1275 thermo housing. https://www.minisplus.com.au/classic-mini/product/engine-steady-bracket-left-firewall-end

Something else to check is you said the motor has been stripped of things so where the dizzy goes into the block see if you have mount/sleeve that holds the distributor drive in place and mounts the clamp. A big hole with one small bolt hole says you don't while a smaller hole with one bolt head and two holes for the clamp(or the clamp itself is still mounted) then you have it. If you don't have it then it is possible if the engine falls forward for the distributor drive to fall out and when you stand up the engine it finds it way into the gearbox. If in doubt post some photos. :)

Terry
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 08:03:00 PM by Terry »
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Samm

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Re: Going from 998/1100 to 1275- Things to consider
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 09:21:00 PM »
Thanks again for your replies Terry.

I contacted the seller today and he has gladly agreed to pass on the thermostat housing and top radiator bracket.

He bought his Moke with the 1275 fitted so thinking it may have had some Moke modifications done however time will tell once things start getting pulled down.

I will take a couple of photos in the next few days and put them up. Might help identifying things easier.

Thanks again
Samm