austmoke

Author Topic: Pedal height  (Read 1052 times)

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cheezle

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Pedal height
« on: July 30, 2018, 07:48:19 AM »
Hi all
I assembled my brake and clutch peddle box and installed yesterday, all went well till i put the master cylinder pins in , the clutch peddle hight is out quite a bit, I got two new master cylinders the brake master I changed to a twin yellow tag which to me seems fine, is there a difference in push rod pin length in clutch master cylinders ,mine has a plastic reservoir
cheers
Cheezle

cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2018, 08:01:13 AM »
Well I have spoken to my suppler and they tell me that when brake fluid is in it will move to the correct hight  >:(
 I was hoping that there was two different push rod lengths ,looks like its all coming out again

Maddog

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 08:54:31 PM »
Hi Cheezle,

Which is higher, the clutch or brake pedal? If it is the brake the tandem masters often have a spacer under them to bring the pedal down a bit.

Have you got any old clutch cylinders to compare the rod length?

MD.

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cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2019, 07:55:18 AM »
Hi There well Im back to this problem , I walked away from this for sometime ( hoping it would fix it self ) the crunch has come where I need to poor brake fluid in , I have put a spacer under master cylinder ,it improves my problem ,I have done a test run with flat washers and it turns out I need 3 spacers under there to get the peddles right then there isn't enough thread to hold master cylinder on ,so going with one spacer , can anyone tell me does a verto clutch have a return spring attached to the outside of the slave cylinder ?

Drakman

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 09:46:01 AM »
I don't understand how you could have different pedal heights, my pedals, where the pins for the M/Cyl's go through, hit the body before they can move too far.

Has your moke got a late model pedal box with the brake light switch on it limiting the travel of the brake pedal compared to the clutch.

Have you pulled the master cyl apart and put something back in wrong?

If you look closely you can see what i mean where the pin goes through the clevis there is only about 3 mm before the pedal hits the body.


cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 10:29:49 AM »
Hi Drakman I like the grease nipple

with the cleves pins out the pedals sit on the body and sit at the same hight , you have to push pedals down a little to get cleves pin in , the brake pedal sits about 3mm off the body as you mentioned , the clutch pedal needs to be pushed down more to get pin in so clutch pedal has about 6mm gap at the body , out at the pedal that is about 20mm low the brake pedal

I do have a 1980 body , a 1978 pedal box with brake switch at pedals ,

I have some other pedal boxes  out of older mokes every thing seems the same

Cheers Cheezle

Drakman

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 12:34:30 PM »
Hi Cheezle,

There must be something NQR with the clutch M/Cyl then.

Have a look at the circlip holding the piston in, is there a washer or spacer there that you can remove to let the piston move down closer to the circlip?

Is the piston coming all the way back to the circlip? 

Is the clutch actuating push rod new with the M/C, if it's an old one maybe someone "modified" it.

Cheers
Dave

cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 08:16:00 AM »
Hi Dave
 Every thing is new , yesterday I removed the gasket out from under the master cylinder picked up about a mm , I thought that someone may of bent the peddle at some stage but it looks fine , bit hard to tell without pulling out and laying against another pedal , this is bothering me because it looks not right , Im thinking of welding hole and re drilling .
I have looked at master cylinders , lengths travel etc all OK

Cheers Cheezle 

Incogneato

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2019, 07:23:35 PM »
Hi Cheezle

We have 2 mokes, 1980 and 1981. These are the pictures of our brake pedals from the passenger side. Both of these show the brake pedals high in comparison to the clutch. The Red One has the original pedal, if yours is similar, it may be just as it is supposed to be? The yellow one, Mazy, has a brake pedal out of a Rover mini & the brake pedal has been replaced to install the brake booster. We have never had any issue when driving either of these mokes.

In answer to your question for the verto slave cylinder spring placement, Mazy used to have a verto clutch, it attaches to the hook above the bleeder nipple & it is necessary.





Hope this helps

Alan.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:29:30 PM by Incogneato »

cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 08:12:52 AM »
Thanks for the photos, Im going to go with the pedal hight as it is for the moment , the reason I asked about the spring is because of the hook and there seems to be a spring inside the slave as there was a little bit of effort to push in to fit cleves pin , I have been GOOGLING verto clutches but I can seem to see a  image showing a external spring , To me it feels like the slave is all ready at the end of it stroke with no hose or pipe fitted let only fluid.

Cheers Cheezle

Mokee Moke

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2019, 11:17:30 PM »
Hi Cheezie, I am replacing my hydraulics too and have EXACTLY the same issue.
Situation:
- replaced the original brake dual master cylinder with a new style dual master cylinder.
- replaced my original tin style clutch master cylinder for a plastic style master cylinder.
- modified my pedal box due to pedal pivot bolt head flogged out and hole (adjacent to clutch pedal) flogged out too. So I had a bush welded over the hole and replaced the pivot bolt with a modified bolt (but no change to any of the critical dimensions).

Result: brake pedal sits high relative to the clutch pedal. WTF??? So, to give some context, I have taken a measurement of the distance between the top of the each pedal lever at rest (i.e. below the clevis pin)  to the bottom of the pedal lever cavity in the firewall:
- brake pedal lever = 1.5 mm
- clutch pedal lever = 7.5 mm

Issues/Observations:
1. Brake pedal looks about the right height.
2. Clutch pedal looks like it is low, given it has to swing through a greater arc (comparatively to the brake lever arc) to release the clutch.
3. No adjustment available to either system, so one or both push rods must be incorrect length, or as Terry has indicated, there could be a shim installed in the clutch master cylinder.
4. If there is a shim installed and you remove it, will it affect the hydraulic effect; i.e. will the slave cylinder on the clutch still move the same distance?
5. The car won't pass roadworthy if the pedals are not the same height (my car is not registered at the moment).

Questions:
1. Does anyone have the original spec for pedal height? The manual gives no clue...
2. Is this issue a recent phenomenon?

Happy Mokin'
Greg

Drakman

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2019, 05:48:44 AM »
Ok, this is probably a silly question, are both master cylinder actuating rods the same length? The ones that go from the pedal into the respective master cylinders. I am new to mokes and i have never compared these rods, can they swapped around?

cheezle

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 08:13:43 AM »
Hi Greg
You have made my day, its not me
- brake pedal lever = 1.5 mm
- clutch pedal lever = 7.5 mm
yes this is about my measurements and if you measure out at the pedals its around 20 to 25 mm different , to me it is defiantly the clutch peddle that is low ,I did replace both brake and clutch master cylinders ,with the same as what you are telling me you have done , I did contact the suppler and they tell me the clutch master with the plastic bottle is the same as the one with the tin bottle ,it is just the bottles are different
I did measure new and old push rod difference at the time I cant remember what it was , I will go back onto this job on the weekend now I have a friend
I have been ignoring this job as you do get sick of getting under the dash ,Im not far away from putting seats in so I think it would be easer to finish now,
I did think about chopping push rod and adding a little or welding hole in pedal and re-drilling , I will start with remeasuring push rods
Cheers
Cheezle
 

Terry

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2019, 09:32:51 AM »
Hi,

it is probably a bit tricky to measure if the cylinders are in the car but if you try and measure the resting place of the push rod base(the piece that pushes the push rod) in the cylinder relative to the mounting face of the cylinder. It could be that the starting position of the push rod is higher in the Clutch.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


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Terry

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Re: Pedal height
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2019, 07:00:38 PM »
Hi,

while working on a Moke with new Master Cylinders I noticed the same thing as mentioned already, the clutch pedal is lower or the brake pedal is higher.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


Cujo. 1999 - 2016