austmoke

Author Topic: Jumping out of first - is this normal?  (Read 351 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mirboo Moke

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 256
  • Personal Text
    1968 998 moke
  • Location: Melbourne
Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« on: December 28, 2018, 10:33:40 AM »
Hi everyone,

It's been a while, but I have been working on the moke slowly in the background and am now at the point of doing some shakedown runs. The engine is running sweetly, starts first time even after a long break and I have replaced all of the wiring and suspension rubbers. The brakes feel very average, the peddle doesn't get  to the floor but I am used to a modern sports car, so assume that is normal (it stops, but won't lock up on bitumen, probably needs some more adjustment).

Anyway - I have a gear box marked MOWOG 22A1288 and 1326, is it normal that when pulling away the gearbox jumps out of first if not holding the gearstick? It's fine once going and no issues in other gears. Hopefully it's nothing major.

Cheers,
James

Terry

  • Custodian
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • ***
  • Serial Moke Offender

  • 15154
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2018, 11:54:00 AM »
Hi,

no it is not normal and it can take some playing to determine the exact cause. I run the same gearbox and in its last incarnation before it got destroyed it did the same in 3rd gear.

My theory on it was that it wasn't actually getting into the gear properly in the first place on the basis of when you look at how the indent springs, divots, balls and plungers all work inside the gears and selectors you realise it takes quite a bit of force for it to come out of gear. So assuming that internally everything is okay and nothing is too loose or worn, best thing you can do is start fixing the things on the outside.

The things to look for are the gear stick hitting on the floor hole when going into 1st. Take the gator/boot off and see if you are hitting the front edge of the hole which could stop you getting just that last bit to lock the gears into place. You may have a mismatch in the older style box and the later body style that moved the hole to suit the remote rod selector. Or things could be just very worn out  like most of them.

Check the linkages that go around the diff housing and make sure they are tight and not flogged out.   

The likely issue is the pivot, locating pin, gear stick and cover plate are all very worn out and it is taking a lot more travel to get the gears to change. Remove the cover plate and check the slot in the end of the gear stick and look at the small pin that comes out of the pivot for the wear. The slot can be welded and re-cut if you are careful and I recently discovered that pulling out the pin with pliers and replacing it with the non cutting end of broken 6-6.5mm drill works very well, just make sure it is a firm pressed in fit.

If the above options are less than attractive I have used cereal packet cardboard folded over and laid in the pivot base of the cover plate helps to push the gear stick back up against the pivot/pin and does take out a lot of the slop, but you do need to replace it from time to time. I have also tried thin rubber and aluminium as a spacer also.

Terry
 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 11:56:21 AM by Terry »
Cujo. 1999 - 2016

Mirboo Moke

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 256
  • Personal Text
    1968 998 moke
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2018, 05:00:08 PM »
Thanks Terry,

Had a look and it's definitely not hitting the body work. I tightened the bolts on the cover plate and now it holds in first intermittently. Is there supposed to be grease on the end of the gear stick? Mine is bone dry. Where exactly do you put the cardboard? I very briefly pulled the gear stick out and didnt see any pins, not sure where I am supposed to be looking though.

Cheers,
James

Terry

  • Custodian
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • ***
  • Serial Moke Offender

  • 15154
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 09:41:24 PM »
Hi,

you may not have the diff housing/change mechanism that I think you have, Can you post up a picture from underneath so I can be sure?

Terry
Cujo. 1999 - 2016

Mirboo Moke

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 256
  • Personal Text
    1968 998 moke
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 09:17:47 PM »
Here we go:



Regards,
James

Terry

  • Custodian
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • ***
  • Serial Moke Offender

  • 15154
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2018, 07:44:44 PM »
Hi,

That is a different set up to the type I run. The gearbox is the same but in the 'magic wand' version the gear stick is held in place by the cover plate with four bolts whereas yours has the  gear stick is held in place by the two bolts.

I don't have one here to pull apart to see what they do differently inside.

Terry
Cujo. 1999 - 2016

Mirboo Moke

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 256
  • Personal Text
    1968 998 moke
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2018, 09:51:20 PM »
This explains my setup I think:

https://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/british-cars/mini/mini-1959-2000/gearbox/gear-change-magic-wand-type-gearbox-up-to-september-1968.html

The retaining pin is screw in and there is something that is spring loaded.

Will have a look more closely at mine in a couple of days.

It's 3 synchro, so maybe that makes it more difficult to get into 1st?

Regards,
James

Terry

  • Custodian
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • ***
  • Serial Moke Offender

  • 15154
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2018, 04:05:58 PM »
Hi,

I must be getting old, my boxes aren't 3 synchro so I checked the number on the casing and it is the G1128, not the 1288 you have.

However the design of the big ball and the smaller pivot ball suggests they are similar.

Terry
Cujo. 1999 - 2016

Mirboo Moke

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 256
  • Personal Text
    1968 998 moke
  • Location: Melbourne
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 09:46:07 PM »
So I've been testing the car a bit more recently. It seems that getting into first gear is much easier when the engine is cooler. Does this sound right? If so, would it be worth getting an oil that doesn't thin quite as much at heat?

Tim

  • Standard
  • Registered Member

  • Offline
  • *

  • 3793
  • Location: Hobart, Tas
Re: Jumping out of first - is this normal?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2019, 12:23:46 PM »
Usually its the other way round. When the oil is cool you get drag between the clutch plate and the crank, and when it warms up the viscosity lowers and it works better.

Tim
1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian

Driving a Moke with a hardtop is like having a shower in a raincoat.