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Author Topic: Rocker post oil hole plugged?  (Read 354 times)

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Pauly-built

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Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« on: January 13, 2020, 09:51:05 PM »
Hi all,

Hoping someone might be able to help me figure out what is going on with my rockers!

I adjusted the valves on the weekend hoping to fix a noisy tappet and noticed that there wasn't much to no oil on the rockers. (probably should have noticed earlier). I started the engine with the cover off and there was no oil coming out at all. Oil pressure seems ok, just over 50 for a cold start and drops to 20 - 30 when idling. 

I found a recent topic on here (below) with a similar problem and went looking for the oil grub screw but what I found has got me confused. It looks like someone has plugged the hole. Is that correct? if so, why would you want to do that?

Grateful for any advice because now I'm worried that I might cause some damage if I keep driving it.

Similar topic https://www.mokeforum.com.au/index.php?topic=13750.0

Many thanks!
Paul







« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:53:25 PM by Pauly-built »

Terry

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2020, 09:19:28 AM »
Hi,

the oil hole is underneath the post, the one closest to the radiator. You have to undo the head bolts and the smaller one to remove the rocker assembly to be able to see the hole.

What you are looking at in your picture is the head of the grub screw and the plate that locks it into position. The head of the grub screw is the lighter coloured metal rectangle in the middle while the locking plate is under the bolt head and nut.

The grub screw holds the rocker shaft in place so that oil can come up the post  travel along it to lubricate each of the rockers and posts.

Looks right to me.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


Cujo. 1999 - 2016

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2020, 10:08:23 AM »
Yep, looks right to me too.
Here is a pic of the head without the rocker assembly.
The oil gallery is in the first post next to the thermostat.


The locating screw Terry mentioned makes sure the shaft is held in the right spot so the oil feed hole lines up.
Should be a steady flow of oil in there
HP
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 10:10:12 AM by Halfpint »
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Peter L

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2020, 11:00:31 AM »
Hi Paul, I’m in Canberra. If there is anything you want to compare or any help just give me a call.
Cheers
Peter

Peter L
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Pauly-built

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2020, 05:58:46 PM »
Thanks guys, that makes sense. I assumed that screw was how you adjusted the flow.

Peter - that would be great! I'll send you a message.

So how much oil should be visable when turned on? Does it travel along the shaft internally and onto to each rocker?

Is it possible the hole is blocked and stopping the majority of oil.  I might try taking the locking plate off and removing the grub screw to confirm there is oil coming up through the head. I'd prefer not to have to replace the head gasket if I can avoid it. Or will I still not see anything unless I take the rocker assembly off?

Thanks for the help!
Cheers,
Pauly



Terry

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 06:34:46 PM »
Hi,

you don't need to remove the head, at worst just the rocker assembly if you want to poke something down a hole or check that the post has a feed hole in the bottom of it.

Just remove the rocker cover and start the engine and you will start to see the oil seeping out from around the posts and the rockers.

If you undo the grub screw then the shaft will be able to rotate and the feed holes will no longer line up and then you will have no oil getting through. The grub screw is a locator only, it does not access the oil gallery.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


Cujo. 1999 - 2016

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 07:54:20 PM »
I tried to find a good picture of the Rocker shaft for you, but this is the best I could find just now so you get an idea of how the oil holes are set up.

https://minikingdomonline.com.au/product/rocker-shaft-heavy-duty-high-spec/

It wont need to run for long before you see oil, just stay close to the key  ;).
HP
The happiest of people don't always have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything they have.

Pauly-built

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 10:27:20 PM »
Thanks Terry and HP!

Thats a huge help. I'll take another look tomorrow and hopefully I can see some oil!

When I was talking about the head gasket, I thought I read somewhere that if you lossen the head nuts to remove the rocker assembly, you should replace the head gasket because it's likely to move and not seal properly when you torque it down again? Or is that BS?!

Will let you know how it goes :D


Terry

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 08:14:51 AM »
HI,

that sounds reasonable, whether it moves or not I couldn't say, but loosening off the tension could cause a premature failure and that may also be dependant on the type of head gasket used like a copper or mono torque gasket might not like being released.

I remove two head nuts to lift an engine out of a car and then retention them when I am finished and touch wood haven't seen it cause an issue, but removing the rockers is 50% of what is holding the head in place so it might be different.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


Cujo. 1999 - 2016

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 09:00:03 AM »
Thanks Terry,

Good to know in case I have to remove the rockers.

Might have been a false alarm the entire time. Just didn't know what I was looking for. I was expecting some obvious "splashing" of oil but seems more like a light pooling with some eventual spitting is what happens.

I started it up and ran for 5 minutes (if that) and this was the result. Seems to be much more oil on one side though. I'll keep an eye on that to make sure its getting some oil the next time I take it for a drive.

I should change the topic name to "Rocker lubrication for dummies"

Thanks for the help  :D :D



« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 09:05:17 AM by Pauly-built »

FNQ

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2020, 09:36:16 AM »



Did you put a few revs into it when you were looking for oil squirting?- It is hard to tell from photos whether there has been any overheating type discoloration to the rocker arms or pushrods , or to my weak eyes whether the oil was coating all the important bits. - ( albeit that the oil drains away quite quickly in normal operation.)


My concern is that my experience with the oil up there is nearly the opposite of yours. ( one man operation , so i just sit the rocker cover on the head and then move to cockpit to start the car, when i race back under the bonnet I find  oil dribbles/leaks everywhere under the cork gasket. On both occasions i have done this i have had to replace the rocker cover gasket as once oil impregnated the cork i never got a full seal after.


Not wanting to alarm you -as in all likelihood it is fine and my vision of your pictures is the culprit.


As an aside, on full blown a series race engines some racers use a restrictor to the flow up there as at 7500 rpms too much oil fills the rocker cover and catch cans. Cheers Darryl

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2020, 09:00:42 AM »
Not only A series race engines FNQ.

I remember doing some oil flow testing on Holden V8 engines and over 3,500 RPM only one third (if that) of the engine oil was still in the sump.  We played with oil scrapers along the side of the sump and windage trays to try to minimise the effect.  The scary thing for Moke owners is we have a gearbox  in the sump.

Terry

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2020, 09:27:19 AM »
  The scary thing for Moke owners is we have a gearbox  in the sump.

and a diff too.

Terry
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.


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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2020, 08:20:23 PM »
Hey guys,

FNQ - When I did that test, I only had it idling for a short period to see if any oil was coming out. Didn't put any revs into it really. Having said that, I changed the oil this morning (cartridge oil canisters are a sh!t of a thing!) and went for a decent drive to meet Peter :) A short cruise up the highway to the Sutton bakery was probably a much more accurate test. Upon arrival, I spotted a good looking blue Moke parked, with a heap of smiling people gather around it ;D

When we were checking out the engine bay, we noticed there was a fair bit of oil that had seeped out of the rocker cover gasket, which is good and bad I guess. Good, because it means that there is lots of oil and bad because the gasket is now not sealing (exactly like you've experienced). Lucky I purchased a spare with the last order! Peter also had a peak inside the cover and seemed to think it looked ok.

I wasnt able to work on it when I got back today, but after the next run, I'll take the cover off and inspect it again, just in case. (and swap the gasket over)

I remember doing some oil flow testing on Holden V8 engines and over 3,500 RPM only one third (if that) of the engine oil was still in the sump.  We played with oil scrapers along the side of the sump and windage trays to try to minimise the effect.  The scary thing for Moke owners is we have a gearbox  in the sump.

That is a very scary thought indeed!

Thanks for the help and support all.


Two good looking Mokes I saw this morning  ;)


FNQ

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Re: Rocker post oil hole plugged?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2020, 05:22:21 PM »
I hope you digested a cream bun or two whilst pondering oil leaks.