Author Topic: Cylinder liners  (Read 493 times)

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Maystro

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Cylinder liners
« on: November 01, 2020, 11:11:33 PM »
Hi
I seem to be keep having problems with blown head gaskets.   My last tear down I noticed the cylinder liner in number 1 was loose.  So much so that after cleaning everything up I was able to pull the liner up.
I'm thinking this could be the cause of latest blown head gasket between number 1 and 2?
Has anyone ever experienced a loose liner and how do they originally fit them?
I was thinking of using some loctite 620 to secure it back in the bore.  However I'm concerned if I pull the liner up to much I won't be able to get past the rings again.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 05:47:23 AM by Halfpint »

Halfpint

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2020, 05:53:22 AM »
It should be an interference fit and not able to move like that.
When its pushed all the way back down, does it sit dead flush or just below the deck height?
HP
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Terry

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2020, 10:01:23 AM »
Hi,

I haven't seen that issue before but if the liner is that loose that it is moving up and down in the block then it could be damaging the fire ring on the head gasket and otherwise causing you grief. I would think loctite on what is probably the hottest part of the engine is not going to last long and really this is a problem that needs to be fixed by a machine shop with the right tools and experience and probably a new liner that is going to stay put.

Terry
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Maystro

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2020, 08:22:46 PM »
Hi,

HP the sleeve sits just under deck height of about 0.007".

Terry I think this has probably been going on for a while and  like you said probably the reason for the blown head gaskets in the past which have always been number 1 cylinder. 

This engine looks to be getting tired now.  I did a compression test and the numbers were 75psi on 1 and 2 and 125 on 3 and 4 cylinders.  I think I will put it back together with the new Minispares copper head gasket which I have already bought and use the loctite 620 which I have already bought and look around for a 1100 short motor or 1275 long motor. 

While I have the gurus, is it copper side up for the minispares head gaskets.  I have read so many different stories?

Thanks Brad.
 

Halfpint

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2020, 09:09:44 PM »

HP the sleeve sits just under deck height of about 0.007".
 
Just like Terry, I suspect the sleeve has been moving up and down ( ever so slightly, up to .007" is a fair bit) and each move will slowly tap at each end of its cycle, IE: the gasket and the engine block at the base of the sleeve.
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Maystro

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 11:02:03 PM »
Thanks HP,   I'm going to try and re glue the liner in since I have all the parts.  After all  it's only a couple of hours of work to change a head gasket.
That loctite 620 is designed for high temp cylinder liner applications up to 200 celcius.   Only problem I for see is getting enough in between the block and the liner to make it stick.

You don't have a spare 1275 lying around collecting dust you want to get rid off?

Thanks Brad

moemoke

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2020, 10:26:47 PM »
One idea that might work is to push the liner down about 20mm and using a centre punch give the original bore about 4 hits using the centre punch then tap the liner back to correct location, will only work if you have the gearbox off.
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Maystro

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2020, 08:50:04 PM »
Hi Moe,

I like your 'out of the box' thinking but if I have to go to the trouble of pulling the motor out and separate it from the box,  I may as well like Terry said take it to a machine shop and get the whole short block recond.

I have found a second hand 1100 motor for sale and was thinking of just taking the short motor to a machine shop for a recond.  Since I already have a 12g202 cylinder head which I just got recond and has had some expensive port work with big valves.

Anyone's thoughts are much appreciated.

Thanks Brad

Terry

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2020, 08:59:34 PM »
Hi,

call a machine shop and ask them if your loctite solution is likely to work and if so go with that, if not then come up a plan B.

Terry
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Drakman

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 06:52:59 AM »
Hi Brad,

My opinion only but I suspect everyone else here is thinking the same thing, that block with the loose sleeve is toast.  Fill it with concrete and use it as a boat anchor.  I know you don't want to hear that but if you reassemble your engine with any kind of wonder glue it will end in tears.

Once a sleeve comes loose like that there is no going back you would need an oversized sleeve insert to fix it.  Sleeves are an interference fit and that one is now a sliding fit which means it has worn the section of the block that should be holding it secure.  If you really want to keep that engine, I have a friend in Melbourne who makes sleeves, he could make an oversize one but he would need the block in his workshop.  Either way the engine has to come apart  so you may as well try to find an 1100, they seem to be still available and reasonably priced.

I'm surprised there is no coolant in the engine oil, with the sleeve that loose I would have thought coolant would get past from the water jacket to the sump/gearbox, especially if you are using glycol based antifreeze/coolant.

I feel for you, that is a real shit thing to have happen and beyond your control.

If I can help, let me know.

Dave

Tim

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2020, 05:24:53 PM »
Dave is right, that's stuffed, it needs to be re-sleeved...if they can.

Tim
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Maystro

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 10:49:45 PM »
Thanks Dave,
I don't like reality checks,  I'm hoping my wing and a prayer mechanic's keep me going with my wonder glue till I get a replacement 1100 short block.

Then I'm thinking should I just bite the bullet and go for a 1275 motor rather than get a 1100 block to go with my new recond 1100 head which just cost me 1000 bucks a few months ago.
 Well for starters I have to find a 1275 motor,  any ideas?
Thanks Brad

Terry

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 08:21:21 AM »
Thanks Dave,
I don't like reality checks...

Yeah thanks Dave, if you give people the right advice how are the rest of us going to learn from the mistakes experience of others if they don't try . :)

Terry
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666: "No, I am the scariest number."
2020: "Hold my beer and watch this."

Cujo. 1999 - 2016

Maystro

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2020, 11:21:14 PM »
Don't worry Terry,  I am hard at hearing and often don't listen to common sense so I will still be trying to use my wander glue to be your experiment. 

After all  without pioneers like me, you would have no knowledge other than what has been previously written ;-)

Brad

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Re: Cylinder liners
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2020, 09:16:12 AM »
Hi Brad,

If you are looking for a 1275, ! know a guy here in Qld that will have a 1275 engine if you want one.  In fact I got mine from him, not that cheap though.  PM me if you want his number.

Cheers
Dave