Author Topic: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin  (Read 4329 times)

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suspend6

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 10:51:03 AM »
Sorry to open up this thread after so long, but more recent threads may have resurrected interest in plating.

The Jane Kits look really simple and the results are very impressive. If you just wanted to refurbish some nuts and bolts, it may be more cost-effective to just go and buy new ones. But the small parts that might need plating like those in some of this thread's photos are a different kettle of fish. If you had enough of them (read - serious restoration), these kits look to be the perfect solution, and the results speak for themselves.

I see Biggles has also used these kits and is also a happy customer. And Maddog was being tempted. I would be interested in any further info. Do they have any "gotcha's", for instance?

Sus
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Ginger ninja

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 01:23:10 PM »
I interested as well, I have been putting together a list of tools I would like to get to make my moke project easier/better.

I take it there is no restriction on the container used for plating? (as the chemicals used are reasonable sedate/safe)

I'm going to have to do some research into this "crockpot" you speak of ;)

Oh and hi....

sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
Hi Ginger

You can use any plastic container as a bath - I went to Kmart and bought a few sizes and shapes - depending on the size of the kit you buy will determine the size of the container - but I have a 2ltr/3ltr/4ltr/10ltr containers - also different shapes to accomodate the different size parts. (I even use a spagetti storage container for long slender parts like pedals, rods, brake pipes, etc.)

Heat is required if you are nickel plating (no heat required for zinc) - and I found that using a crock pot (also purchased at Kmart for $25) with a small amount of water in it and then sitting the plastic container containing the electrolyte in the water heats it sufficently.  I do boil the water in the kettle first to cut down on the time required to heat the bath to 40-50 degrees. (saves about 30 minutes).  I will also say that plating nickel in the summer is much quicker than in winter due to the air temperature. ( A summer's day in Adelaide can be 40 degrees in which case very  little heat is required.  When it is 15 degrees outside it takes longer to achieve the 40-50 degree requirement)

Good luck and happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Sus - some gotcha's include not being able to plate non-ferrous metal, contaminating the electrolyte bath with either unclean parts or parts that have zinc or nickel on them - for example - it is a no no to put a part with nickel left on it in a zinc bath and visa versa - a part with zinc on it in a nickel bath.  It ruins the bath.  Other than that it is very similar to a science experiment you might have done in school.  I just set it up and get a batch going - come back in 45 minutes to swap out another batch while hanging the plated parts to dry.

Jane Kit also provide phone support and I have found them to be very professional and accomodating.


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suspend6

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 02:42:44 PM »
Thanks, very helpful.

Would also like to hear how Biggles has been going with his kit.

So I take it the various chemicals and mixtures have a long shelf life ?

And the "gotchas" you make reference to, are they also covered in the printed material supplied with the Jane Kits?

Sus
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 02:44:50 PM by suspend6 »
Phil Kirby,
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity !

sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 02:52:22 PM »
Thanks, very helpful.

Would also like to hear how Biggles has been going with his kit.

So I take it the various chemicals and mixtures have a long shelf life ?

And the "gotchas" you make reference to, are they also covered in the printed material supplied with the Jane Kits?

Sus

While the electrolyte is a mix of chemicals - they are not lethal and I have immersed my hands in them without ill effect.  The chemicals are long life and as long as they are properly stored (in airtight container - I use plastic jerry cans) they can last indefinately.  I contaminated my zinc bath and had to replace.  A comprehensive manual comes with the kit explaining everything including the gotcha's - as well as an invitation to contact Jane kit for advice or troubleshooting.


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Pete Power

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2012, 04:38:41 PM »
The results are outstanding as I have seen 1st hand some of SA's work.
What do you do with the old contaminated chemicals, I would imagine you cant just pour it down the drain?
Happy Mokin
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Pete

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sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 05:05:13 PM »
I let my zinc bath evaporate in a plastic container until powder and then in the bin


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suspend6

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2012, 11:58:46 AM »
A thread by MD elsewhere showing his rotating plating gadget has prompted another question on the home kits. 

When each part to be plated is suspended in the bath, they are traditionally dangled from bits of wire. The tedium of manually wiring all the bits aside, does the place where the wire contacts the part leave any kind of mark, discoloration or build-up?

Sus
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity !

sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2012, 12:33:50 PM »
Not so that you would notice Sus - I haven't got out a magnifying glass but usually you wrap the wire around a thread or use an existing hole so the point of contact is not visible or so small you don't notice.

I am really interested in how Maddog goes with his contraption.  The reason  MD is trying to emulate barrel plating - is because it allows you to "dump" a bunch of parts into the basket portion of the rotating thingamajig - and when the basket rotates each part gets an electric charge intermittantly as it turns.

This method takes longer to plate than the wire method - wraping a wire around a part takes seconds but if you have bulk amounts of parts (100s of parts you want to plate at once) the basket removes the wire dangling exercise.  So while on a big scale like a drum from a washing machine - this will save time - but on such a small scale I am afraid MD will find the wire method is quicker and gets better results - namely because the wire method supplies a constant current and the basket is intermittant.

I was hoping MD was going to tell us his method of madness...   ;)


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Nickomokeo

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2012, 01:44:43 PM »
I would have thought that if the probe is right in the mass of nuts and bolts and they are all touching each other the current would be 'almost' constant.
Nicko

sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2012, 02:07:00 PM »
Because the parts are loose and move around it lends itself to the intermittant state.  Also there is a bit of "bump and grind" between the parts that affects the quality of the plate. I remember MD comparing the finishes of the different methods and agreeing that the barrel plating is a bit "rougher" than suspension plating.

From a plating firm on the net:

Barrel plating is an efficient and relatively low cost method of plating.  Parts are placed inside a barrel that slowly rotates while it is immersed in the plating solution.  Electrical contact is made through the use of danglers or centerbars that are located inside the barrel. This plating method is usually recommended since high volumes of parts can be plated with uniform coverage.

Some parts may be too large or delicate to be barrel plated. Please keep in mind that there is always a chance for part damage or bending due to the nature of the tumbling process. In cases where parts cannot be barrel plated we recommend rack plating which is more labor intensive and thus more costly.
(But better plating looks and quality - again you get what you pay for!)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:10:16 PM by sa mokin »


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Newie

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2012, 08:22:29 PM »
I guess it depends on what you're plating.

If you were just plating fiddly screws and bolts which you will struggle to see once it's all together, I would think the barrel plating should give you the corrosion protection you're after and look "good enough" on most people's projects. Obviously the more visible bolts/screws and larger pieces would warrant the longer time spent in hanging them individually, but I think MD's method would save a lot of tedious work on the less visible "smalls" (assuming it works  ;) ).

Also obviously depends on the end quality you are trying to achieve. Most of us are after a presentable result, but don't plan to be minutely detailing the engine bay after each run. Others like SA, Willy, Ian etc are obviously after a much higher show quality level of finish and are prepared to go to the extra time, effort and expense to achieve it.


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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2012, 01:50:04 AM »
Quote
I was hoping MD was going to tell us his method of madness...   ;)

Perhaps there isn't any method to my madness.... :-\ ;D

The reason I thought I'd give the tumbler thing a go was for all the really small stuff - like the carby screws and all the alternator screws, clips, brackets etc. I'm not game to have them done by anyone else - bits can and have gone missing! :( Some of them are special, and a bit hard to replace! I'll probably try some of the bigger bolts etc too, but if it doesn't work it's only cost me $30. And yes the basket is small, but it needs to be full so the dangler works, so any larger wouldn't really work for me.

The quote from the plating firm on the net is spot on, and I'd agree with all of it. Does barrel plating cause damage - yes it can. Will a plater hang all your parts individually - probably not. Is it cheap and easy - absolutely!!! So we are a bit between a rock and a hard place here - the only real alternative to barrel plating is to do it yourself. Which is why I've bought a kit and am doing it the same as SA has been for a while. ;) ;D

But if you just want a bucket full of bits cleaned up and ready to put back, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend barrel plating. I've seen what other people bring in to have done, and some parts are almost unrecognisable! :o But they all go out looking pretty good, and I've never been disappointed. The acids and cleaners they use are far stronger than anything we'd be allowed to have. ;) Just daisy chain all the little bits together with copper wire, make sure there is no oil or grease on them, and don't mix big heavy bits and small delicate bits. And don't put in anything you can't afford to lose!


Cheers, MD.
Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

Step aside coffee, this is a job for alcohol!

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2012, 08:22:43 AM »
MD what you've raised about having Plater's do the work for you is 99 / 100 time right. I have been through a lot of them in recent years, some dear, some cheap, sometimes you get your parts back, sometimes half are missing, sometimes they are damaged  ::)

I finally found a small firm, a two man operation, and they do a great job. Unless I take them a 2 gallon bucket of small parts, they will actually wire every single part! To give an example, I once took them 100 radiator cowl screws with washers (& other stuff), and they wired them all! I have had them barrel plate stuff, when I've had a bigger load and I have found that it comes back in excellent order and the plating appears just a wee bit better than the stuff that's been wired. Why? Hell, I wouldn't know! I drop off about an Ice Cream container's worth nearly every week and it's never been more than 30 bucks. 2 - 3 day turn around.

The quality of their plating is usually quite good, I've had a few items that have had to have a second go, but that's usually not a big deal. It tends to be items that have a laminate or the like that I suspect their acid(?) and sit between. But probably the biggest plus is they haven't lost or damaged anything - touch wood.

Oh and they do have a big sign behind the counter - No Automotive Parts  ;D - I suspect they have some whingers in the past.

When I knock over some of the projects currently on my bench, I'd really like to try one of the Jane Nickle kits, SA has had very good success with it.

Looking forward to your results with your u-beaut barrel plater.
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sa mokin

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Re: Plating Kit in use by SA Mokin
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2012, 08:39:15 AM »

 I have had them barrel plate stuff, when I've had a bigger load and I have found that it comes back in excellent order and the plating appears just a wee bit better than the stuff that's been wired. Why?

Plating is also dependent on how long the charged parts are left in the bath - I made the mistake of falling asleep one night while plating - left the parts in the bath for hours - and they came out superb - the plate continues to build the longer you leave it in there.  I reckon some barrel plating places put the parts in for extended periods of time which would contribute to the look and quality.

"Apples and Oranges" is a common term at work for trying to compare things that are "loosely" the same.  Several variables come into the equation when comparing plating jobs - such as plating type (zinc, copper, nickel), part type (is it a new part or a 40 year old rusted part that has been blasted and cleaned), the gauge of the part (thickness), number of anodes being used, strength of amps being used through the part (too much and the plating is rough), effectiveness of electrolyte (is it new or very used), temperature of the electrolyte, cleanliness of the parts and length or duration of time the part was left in the plating bath. (set and forget)

MD makes an excellent point regarding the chemicals used in a plating shop versus the home kits we are all using.  I am sure the strength (and nastiness) of chemicals used in an industrial setting are far more effective than the safe to use at home stuff I am playing with.  None the less - the results are certainly better than any paint treatment or other methods of rust prevention being used in car restorations.  I can't recommend highly enough!   ;)


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