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Author Topic: Cool Breeze - on the road, but still a work in progress  (Read 20136 times)

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Terry

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2011, 07:08:22 PM »
Hi,

The brakes should be able to be adjusted up so that they will lock up the wheel and stop it from turning.

A couple of things to try. Disconnect the handbrake cable at the clevis pin on the end of the arm/cable and try again. If the handbrake has been adjusted by tightening up the cable at the lever under the seats then the arm is not allowing the brake shoes to sit right. By releasing the cable the springs should pulled the shoes and cylinder into the right position to do the adjuster up properly and then you will know if you still have problems.

If you can't lock up with the above attempt then pull the shoes off, still with spring attached, at the top to remove them from the adjuster area. Remove the two odd shaped bits of metal that sit between the cam and the shoes and look for signs of wear on the angled surface. Excessive wear here will reduce the ability for the adjuster cam to do up tightly. New ones, good second hand ones or a spot of welding and grinding may help you here if they are worn.

Next step is to the reverse the shoes as sometimes they wear un evenly so switching them over may improve the lack of adjustment.

Unless a lot of effort has been made to modify the drive flanges, drums etc. then the wheels you have are 101.6mm. The shouldered wheel nut used on that style of rim prevents you from fitting 100mm wheels.  The wheel looks like a Performance wheel that used to be part of their classic range.

Terry
Cujo. 1999 - 2016

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2011, 08:37:29 PM »
Thanks Terry,

Just come in from the shed, so will have another go at the brakes tomorrow. What you say makes sense and I have had a refresher course on how the assembly goes together this evening as when my assistant was doing the wheel nuts back up, one of the studs snapped off  ::). Not really his fault as the studs are pretty ordinary. Looks like several (including the one that snapped) have been cross threaded before. They were hard to get on straight and the one that Mat snapped broke when it was only half done up.

Pulled the hub off the old Gnome subframe to pinch a stud and took note of things as I did it. I suspected (and was right) that the Gnome would have short studs whereas CB has long ones. Still works though with plenty of thread on the nut IMO. Would just make it very hard to line wheel up if you had 4 of them as the end of the stud finishes about flush with the face of the mag. Any problems with this?

After (not) adjusting brakes today, thought they would need a test run anyway   ;) so grabbed a kid and headed out 20k or so up the road. Found some nice quiet gravel roads and had some fun scaring said kid  :). Misses a bit when cold (and even lukewarm) even with the choke, but on my way back into town I took it up the road to the lookout which is pretty steep and my benchmark for testing out cars after playing with them (when I had my 253 Holden which I used to service myself I knew it was right if it could pull all the way up in 4th gear - only took a slight problem to make it struggle). Well, CB didn't exactly go up in 4th gear, but it went very smoothly in 2nd with short bursts of 3rd, so I was happy with that - no missing etc that I got when it was cold.


The gravel road highlighted another job I need to do before going anywhere with it. The tray rattles very badly on a rough road. It's a tipper which only has a pin holding one side of the front down at present, so will go looking for a couple of catches tomorrow that will actually pull it down tight to the body.


Newie

PS. Thanks for changing the thread title - I had thought it would need to be improved on before we go public

Terry

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2011, 09:05:51 PM »
Hi,

The wheel stud finishing flush with the rim sounds fine, most of mine are the same. I read an article a few years ago that said that a thread is at its maximum strength when it inserted at its width or more. To explain it better, if a bolt thread is 8mm wide then the maximum strength of the thread is attained when the nut is wound down at least 8mm of thread. Things like a HT bolt with a mild steel nyloc brings down this equation but like for like it is apparently the engineering standard.

Terry
 
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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2011, 09:06:12 PM »
Disconnect the handbrake cable at the clevis pin on the end of the arm/cable and try again. If the handbrake has been adjusted by tightening up the cable at the lever under the seats then the arm is not allowing the brake shoes to sit right. By releasing the cable the springs should pulled the shoes and cylinder into the right position to do the adjuster up properly and then you will know if you still have problems.

Still have problems - no change

If you can't lock up with the above attempt then pull the shoes off, still with spring attached, at the top to remove them from the adjuster area. Remove the two odd shaped bits of metal that sit between the cam and the shoes and look for signs of wear on the angled surface. Excessive wear here will reduce the ability for the adjuster cam to do up tightly. New ones, good second hand ones or a spot of welding and grinding may help you here if they are worn.

Checked this and congratulated myself on an excellent job and probable solution on one side as the adjusters had chips out of the pointy end, I replaced them with the ones out of the Gnome hub that I pulled apart yesterday to rob the wheel stud, as the adjusters in it were in much better nick. Disappointingly, there was only a slight difference. There is a bit of resistance from the shoes now, but a long way from locking up. Other side looked fine, so I left it alone.

Next step is to the reverse the shoes as sometimes they wear un evenly so switching them over may improve the lack of adjustment.

Tried this and noticed from the shiney spring marks that someone has recently had the same idea. Didn't work either  :(

The PO claimed she'd done next to nothing to the Moke, but I keep finding things like that (and the shiney new wheel cylinders) which have obviously been done very recently  ???

So basically, I  now know  more about how the brake assembly goes together, but still have pretty ordinary brakes  :-\

Newie

Terry

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2011, 10:13:01 PM »
Hi,

Maybe drive carefully until you get to catch up with Biggles and see if he can pick the cause, but it is starting to sound like a mistmatch between the shoe and drum size.

Terry
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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2011, 10:28:09 PM »
Yes, running out of time to do anything else.

Not a big deal as they still work reasonably well. Just thought it would be nice to do if it was an easy fix.

Thanks


Newie

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2011, 10:54:16 PM »
Hi NuE,

What are the brakes like to use? ie. Does it take a lot of pedal effort to make them bite?

I was just thinking that the front brakes look like sliding caliper ones, with a single piston on the inside. Original Moke calipers are twin piston, with one 2" piston on each side. To get the same surface area and the same clamping pressure, your single pistons would have to be just under 3" in diameter - which is pretty big!

Maybe that area you cleared under the bonnet for a battery may come in handy for a booster. ;)

Terry has covered more than I could with the rear brakes. But when you have time, perhaps measure some of the other drums you have with a bit of rod and pick the best (smallest) ones. New shoes are next to nothing, and even the adjusters are cheap.


Cheers, MD.
Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

Step aside coffee, this is a job for alcohol!

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2011, 11:06:39 PM »
Yes they do take a lot of pedal effort, and would be hard to lock up at any decent speed even with a heavy foot (ie not the type that hardly work and then suddenly grab when you push hard)

What you say about the discs makes sense but is a bit worrying - maybe discs weren't such a bonus after all  :-\

Anyway, I guess first step is to get the drums adjusted somehow. Will check with Biggles that I'm not doing something stoopid and if he has no better suggestions I'll get myself a couple of sets of OS shoes. Drums seem to be quite good and all of the ones I have would need cleaning up and probably machining, so using the ones that are on it is probably the best option if possible.


NuE

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 02:57:33 AM »
Quote
What you say about the discs makes sense but is a bit worrying - maybe discs weren't such a bonus after all  :-\

Sorry Newie - didn't mean to worry you! ;D

It may be as simple as changing the master cylinder. I think all of the tall plastic tank ones like yours were .75" and fitted to drum brakes. Disc mokes all had .7" masters, which give better pressure with more travel.

But as long as you know the limits of your brakes, you will be fine. Even original discs don't throw you through the windscreen. And you always grow extra leg muscles in an emergency. ;)


MD.

Mickey 81 Californian Arnold 82 Californian Baldy 82 Californian Ron 79 Califakian Eskymoke 82 Californian

Step aside coffee, this is a job for alcohol!

moemoke

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2011, 07:21:20 AM »
Newie, have you tried the trick with putting some thickish wire
between the brake shoes and the adjusters, usually in a U shape so that
it does both shoes and also stays in place, or a bit of weld
along the end of the shoe.

I wonder if the rear wheel cyl's were changed when the fitted the disc's ???
1976 Moke 1275cc (Dynky),
1976 Moke(Scarlet) current project,
1974 Moke with Suzuki GTI motor (project), 
1975 Moke rust bucket,
1967 Moke rust bucket

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2011, 12:41:00 PM »
Thanks Moe, I might give that a try if I can find time.

I don't think the PO I bought it off fitted the discs, but speaking of wheel cylinders, is there an easy way to tell which size I have? Just looking at them they look identical to the ones I have in stock ready to go into the Gnome, but not sure if they all look the same from the outside anyway?



Newie

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2011, 03:44:58 PM »
They probably look similar to each other, you could try peeling the rubber boot
back and measuring the piston dia with some verniers, might need a helper to press gently
on the brake pedal while you measure
1976 Moke 1275cc (Dynky),
1976 Moke(Scarlet) current project,
1974 Moke with Suzuki GTI motor (project), 
1975 Moke rust bucket,
1967 Moke rust bucket

Newie

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2011, 09:55:16 PM »
Today's progress:

- Put over centre catches on tilt tray to stop rattling

- Replaced one headlight which was very dull, with one off the red Cali. No change, so checked wiring. I had a little disco going on when I wriggled the joiners between the two headlights, with both lights flickering on and off. Replaced original joiners with a terminal block and now have two working lights no matter how much I wriggle the wires

Test drove it (again  :) ) and success - tray is quiet and lights work fine  :D

Was going to look at Moe's brake fix, but ran out of enthusiasm and don't want to do anything to stop me going on my big test run tomorrow afternoon with the boys from KMC with hopefully their 2 Mokes (or a Moke and an EK ute if one of them doesn't pass rego tomorrow  :) ).


Newie

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 10:25:47 PM »
Back from run with Greg and Michael from KMC this afternoon.

Met Greg in Tamworth and we headed out to Halls Creek church (morning tea stop on Round Up's Thursday dirt road run) to meet Michael after work.

Greg had QIP (Green Moke) and Michael met us in his OV.

Everyone had a go in Cool Breeze and all agreed that he was a good buy. Some trouble developed with the carby and Michael tells me the jet is sticking  and will need to be looked at, at some stage (after return from Appache's). Basically the result is that the throttle stays at a fast idle unless manually pushed back. Not a huge drama.

It was agreed that brakes are less than ideal and Michael/Greg have put me onto a brake place in Tamworth who will rebond shoes and then grind them down to suit drum, so that looks like a job that's high on the list as soon as I get home. Michaels opinion of the discs are that they are Mini discs, with modified drum front end and unknown calipers. Suggested that same brake guy will probably know what they are if I take them in, and shed some light on whether they are likely to work without a booster or not.

Overall though, CB performed exceptionally well  :) :) :)

Oil pressure and temp were very well behaved and no scarey noises or smoke developed on the way.

Covered a fair bit of dirt road and nothing shook loose. Cruising back into Tamworth on the highway after leaving Greg and Michael at Bendemeer, CB went really well at highway speeds to and literally flew down the Moonbi ranges  ;D

Covered over 250km now since I've had it, so pretty confident that it stands as good a chance as any Moke of surviving the drives down the coast on the weekend.

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Re: Brace yourselves, Newie has a Moke that goes!!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2011, 03:02:44 PM »
The prefix will be 018FOB1M09, there is/was no P in that position and given the character never changes and the prefixes before and after both used B to signify Buckboard then my guess is it is B for Buckboard.

I have an October 1976 Moke with removable grille and no tail light depression and the next one is a 1977 Californian with the depressions so I am going for late 1976 or early 77 for Newie's Moke at this stage.

Terry

Talking to Greg yesterday, he said that he was pretty sure their Moke QIP is a December '76 model and it has the fixed grille. Not sure about the firewall depression.  Maybe he can confirm and that info can be added to the data banks.



Newie
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 10:46:12 PM by Newie »

 

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